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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  January 23, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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the tire operation, and you reviewing your russian contalkts. i appreciate you taking the table for this discussion. thank you. that is "the beat." don't go anywhere. "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. not in my house. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews live in washington. this has been one of the most bizarre days ever in american politics. the president of the united states began the crazy by insisting on coming to the houses of representatives to give his state of the union despite a previous warning from the speaker he will welcome. but today the speaker hit back with a loud and clear no, you can't. the president beaten and
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rejected says pelosi doesn't want to haerb the truth. this from president whose usual distance from the truth can be measured in years. there's new drama surrounding michael cohen the president's former lawyer and fixer. cohen is now delaying his testimony before the house oversight committee which was going to be in public because of threats he says are real, given hostile statements by trump and his current lawyer, rudy giuliani. let's start with the toxic ping pong between trump and pelosi on this 33rd day of the government shutdown. the president tries to barrel forward today with his plan to deliver the state of the union speech. in a new letter sent to pelosi the president said there is no security concerns regarding the state of the union address, therefore i will be honoring your invutase and fulfilling my constitutional dutee to deliver important information to the people and congress.
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he added it would be so very sad if the state of the union wasn't delivered on time and more importantly on location. pelosi wrote back in her initial invitations there was no thought the government would still be shut down. the house of representatives will not consider a resolution authorizing the state of the union address in the house chamber until government has opened. here's trump's reaction to that. >> i'm not surprised. it's really a shame to do with the democrat. the state of the union speech has been cancelled by nancy pelosi because she doesn't want to hear the truth. she doesn't want the american public to hear what's going on and she's afraid of the truth. >> that's an unbelievable statement by him. pelosi maintains the offer still stands as long as the government is open.
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>> we have said very clearly from the start when i wrote to him the second time say since government is shut down, we do not -- let's work together on a mutually agreeable date when we can welcome you to the capital to give a state of the union address. government is still shut down, i still make the offer. >> tough. i'm joined by u.s. congressman, cicilline and a democrat from rhode island, the author of "the trumps." robert, why does this president want so much to climb up capitol hill to give a speech at that location? >> it's a symbol of defiance for him to go to the capitol to rally republicans as the shutdown drags on. he's aware thousands of federal employees are going without a paycheck. fl are cracks inside the gop and agitation about get thk shutdown over with. but he believes in political
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theater and believes eventually they could buckle. >> let me talk to mr. cicilline of rhode island. why is your party leader so tough in saying i don't want him on that platform next tuesday night? why? >> the speaker is reflecting the will of the caucus that we think it's completely inappropriate for the president of the united states to deliver a state of the union while the union is shut down and to act wliek this is a normal time does not make sense. so i think what the speaker is saying while there are fbi agents air traffic controllers not being paid and government is shutdown, it doesn't make sense. once the government is open, of course he'll be welcome to make his speech. it's just not appropriate. we veemployees not being paid and the speaker and house democrats are committed to reopening the government. we have now voted 10 times to reopen the government.
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that's our priority because it's causing real harm to real people in this country millions of americans and it's inappropriate in the midst all of of this, the president thinks he's going to waltz in and give a state of the union. >> it seems we're watching two people fighting it out. one somewhat surprised and intimidated by the opposition he's facing. has donald trump come up against anybody with the political stuff as nancy pelosi, the speaker? >> i don't think so. maybe his dad but he's coming up against somebody who says no is spelled n-o. and somebody whoses not a subcontractor, somebody who's not an employee. someone he cannot, you know, intimidate into backing down. she's got the leverage. he's used to having the leverage.
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he sets everything up to have the leverage with his chaotic situations. that's his comfort zone. where other people are thrown off the bounds and back down, she's not backing down. >> you know the guy as well as any reporter. my question is do you think he was ready for nancy pelosi to throw it right back at him when he came back crawling with his late effort and she said no you're not getting up here? i think nancy pelosi knows how to look ahead three or four days and imagined he would get up there on the platform and say thank you for the nice invitation, stick to her and then blame the whole government shutdown on her refusal to not back the wall and she didn't want to watch him throw that crap at her >> there's a -- the president has tapped jared kushner to lead negotiations working with vice
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president pence and mule veiny. democrats maintain they will not caught deal with president trump until the government is reopen and that's the fundamental divide. the white house believes somehow the democrats are going to bend the longer the shutdown pain continueses but democrats say there's no reason for them to do so. >> what about there might be along the lines of 5.6 billion for state-of-the art border control that doesn't involved a brick and mortar wall? are the democrats playing with a trial balloon that might be meeting the needs of border control without the ethnic offense of putting up a wall? >> i think democrats have been speaking about ways we can effectively secure the border. use of cargo inspections and droneses and infrastructure at the point of entree. today we passed a bill with an additional $1.6 billion for
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immigration judges, investments at the port of entree. i think tomorrow we're going to hear a broad outline of the kinds of investments that will with effectively secure the border. what's going on the speaker is reasserting the branch of government. the republicans were acting like lap dogs. and he's not used to the congress asserting itself as a co equal branch of government. but he better get used to it. >> new poll. according to a msnbc news poll, americans are evenly split whether trump should give the speech. up there on the hill at the congress while we still have the shutdown. even steven. but more than twice as many americans want trump to give up the wall demands. 66% say trump should accept the budget without the 5.6 for the
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wall. an associated press poll shows he has dropped from 42% just last month to 34%. let me go to gwen on that. it seems to me trump loves, polls, cable fv. how is he living with the fact he's down below 1/3 now? >> this would make him very unhappy. this is a guy who only wants to win. there's no such thing as compromise. there's only winning and losing and if you're not winning, you're losing. he grew up on norm vincent peal that positive think about yourself as successful and the way to go. but he recognized that and you have to win and you have to demolish the opposition. norman vincent peel never said that but that's donald's interpretation and by that way
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of looking at the world he's got to win. his mind has to really be having a headache because he's got to win and yet the polls are showing people don't want him to do this >> the horse whisperer. and my question is he's never givenen nancy pelosi, speaker of the house, a nickname. po pocahontas and low energy. what has stopped him from going after the speaker of the houses in that personal way as a nickname? >> he's only gone so far as to refer to her, not as speaker pelosi but her first name and that's as much as he will say. part of that is he's grap wplin with the dawn of divided government. she has the power of the branch of government, the u.s. house.
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the congress split between republicans and democrats. she's someone of his generation, out of baltimore, knows how politics is played, is not an easy opponent in the way some of his republican rievvals and democrats have been in the past. >> where is he going to give the speech? there's an irish barer a couple blocks away. is he going to find a regular people's hangout or up to eery, pennsylvania or bucks county? >> i wouldn't find the dubliner, it would be fine to me. i was at the senate today and the republicans were saying they would be open to him speaking in the senate chambers but they're trying to see if there's a way for him. could he somehow enter the house floor and give a speech from there and if not there, perhaps in the capitol auditorium, the new area they built in the basement.
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>> congressman, you know, as pointed out, the constitution divides government in checks and balances. we have that great tension between the branchs of government. nancy pelosi is insistent as speaker that it's her call to allow the presidents to come. she's chosen not to do that resolution. what do you think she thinks she's forcing trump to do? i mean she must understand the calculus politically sne calcul calculus politically. >> i believe she believes it's not appropriate when people are worrying about paying their mortgage, being distracted from their work because of this horrific shutdown. i think she does not believe it's approp et and we're not going to behave as if everything is normal and these are normal times insisting that president
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turn his attention to reopening the government and he'll be welcome to make the speech. but the president sees every decision as a personal slight to him. this isn't about him. this is about the american people, a functioning government, taking care can of workers who are doing their jobs and not getting paid and i think the speaker fundamentally and supported by the cocaucus, we d believe it's appropriate to have a state of the union speech while the union is shut down. >> do you hear any mutiny or opposition within the caucus? >> the majority coggase aucus a really unifietd and committed to doing everything we can to get the government oopen. year going to continue to vote and weir a we're very committed to that. >> you don't get it. watch pelosi. she knows how to do it. the ongoing stalemate renoorz
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ongoing tactbes. crisis as a leverage. he creates or threatens to create a calamity. well, i've heard of dictators like that. your thoughts about the tactics of trump. because he'll walk away from a deal but in this case he can walk away but ain't going to end up on capitol hill? >> we saw that in the primaries when he would start right out of the box. he'd insult somebody, kick somebody in the shins and everybody would have to respond to that. that's what he wants to do. make everything be on his turf and nancy pelosi's not going for it. she's saying no, this is the people's turf, the houses and i'm in charge here. she she's not going to let him frame it and i think he doesn't know twlut do in that case. he's use tootd having people
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give way, get out of the way and that's not happening. >> i think a lot of people would wish this president is as tough on putin as speaker of the house is on trump. pleases come back again and again. as wall ways. and thank you for your expertise about the president. up next president trump's former fixer is indefinitely putting off testifying to congress because of ongoing threats to his family from the president. and why is the far right losing its kwlecollective mind over a t term congresswoman from new york? what is it about ocascortez. ab. [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪
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what a bizarre news day. and michael cohen today informed the house oversight committee that he was postponing, perhaps indefinitely, his scheduled testimony because he fears for his life and that of his family. his lawyer said the decision was based on ongoing tleets his and his family from president trump and mr. giuliani. president trump who has called co cannen a rat has urged the authorities to toss the book at him while suggesting they investigate his father in law. >> he's in trouble on some loans and fraud and taxi cabs and stuff i know-nothing about. and in order to get his sentence reduced, he says i have an idea, i'll give you information on the president. well, there is no information but he should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one that people want to look at because where does that money -- that's the money in the family and i guess he didn't want to talk about his father in law.
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he's trying to get his sentence reduced. it's pretty sad. it's weak. >> as trump's personal lawyer and fixer, he's in a position to share everything about his old boss and during his sentencing hearing, he told the court time and time again i felt it was my duty to cover up his dirty deeds and just last month cohen admitted breaking campaign finance laws and did that at the direction of the president. cohen said his wife and father in law are scared and feel directly targeted by this president. and told nbc cold the threats are real and trump knows what he's doing. former federal prosecutor, staff fighter for the atlantic. donnie, what is, to put it bluntly for people trying to figure out why a guy would cough
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his testimony that was so anticipated of this so scandal is afraid. what does he fear physically, criminally, what? why is his wife crying every night according to evidence here. >> i showed up close and personal. i was on the phone with him right after trump did that and he says my wife is sitting here crying. this is my 80 something year old fodder in law. why am i doing this? and it's not only ethat. it's the thousands of rance udthreats that started as a result of him testifying to congress. it's gone to a new heinous level. trump clearly was threatening him. i saw the reaction. i saw him back up and the other thing. he didn't do this in the tease up is michael is stale cooperatinging -- part of cooperatinging in ongoing investigations and i think he
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felt it was in his best interest and in the investigations but mostly for his family. he volunteered to do this. too many people already going to jail and volunteer to speak in front of congress and that's not particularly a friendly place. but i really believe he so wanted to tell certain stories and he'll get them out there eventually. but i think for the safety -- >> you think he's telling the truth about physical fear for his family? afraid of a fanatic going after his family physically? >> chris, i can absolutely, absolutely attest to that. he's read me some of the emails and on top of that when the president -- there's always going to nuts out there. but just like the godfather, really comes out and threatens your 80 something year old grandfather -- i mean father in law. the department of justice reports to the president.
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the president is the chief law enforcement official in this country. he said really? really? it would be okay if it was your father in law? and i've seen michael through a lot and i've seen him be strong and crack a little bit. you may think he's a crook, may think he's a good guy but he is a devoted father and husband. and that hits a very different nerve, particularly when you were volunteering to do it. >> your thoughts about the threats and of course the witness tampering behind it all. it's one thing if somebody on television says this guy's no good. when the president of the united states says it's no good, there's possibility of wild behavior in the streets. he could be going to a restaurant and somebody could attack him. but let's get to the legal question. threatening administration action from the chief executive himself against the fodder in law.
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that looks like a combination of witness tampering and absolute abuse of authority by the president. >> the first question i asked was were there more threats than just the ones presented via twitter, his lawyer on the sunday shows and he said he wasn't willing to get into that but the president signaling to the rest of the world this is someone who is a rat and just in this to protect his father in law was enough for him to get him to change his mind. the question of whether democrats are going to see this as obstruction of justice, that's already been answered. because democrats sent out an unfairly unprecedented letter warning him about tampering with witnesses. and obstruction of justice by the president is an impeachable offense. because we saw that come canning out in mass saying look, if the
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president directed him to lie at any point and if the president was trying to suborn perjury, that is impeachable and they said they would not hesitate to launch impeachment proceedings. if the president has been trying purposely to intimidate out of testifying before the commit canny, that could be seen as a blat obstruction of justice. >> it's worse than watergate. richard nixon never would do this because he had a basic respect for institutions, despite all his wrong doing. he he says if john deansies word against me, i'm going to get him. it is mob talk. >> we're in day 34 of one long act of obstruction of justice. sometimes it's tweets and sometimes directing the justice department to go after someone's father in law. you can't charge them all as crimes. i don't know what you could get the president for under the statute.
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but this is a -- >> if you go on television ass an authority figure and you say this is a rat, a bad being. and somebody goes out and throw as rock at or whatever happens or gives him a hard time, would that be part of the president's responsibility? >> if the president knew he was directing someone to commit the crime. rs for here's the problem when you have the ability to start investigations, when you say the words you ought to go after that guy, when you're the head of the executive branch, it's necessarily a threat. someone will perceive that, that this man is trying to stick the justice department on me. >> even if he doesn't call up william barr and says bill, nail this father in law for me, it's still tampering. >> joyce calls it awful conduct.
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it might be something maybe you couldn't convict him of but it's just bad for the president to be doing. >> he was asked about the allegations against him. er >> he says he's been threatened by you. >> no, i would say he's been threatened by the truth. he's only been threatened by the truth and he doesn't want to do that probably from me or other of his clients. he has other clients also, i assume and he doesn't want to tell the truth for me or other of his clients. >> there he goes again. is he referring to russian clients? mob clients that we've talked about before he's a a conerating witness because he doesn't want to testify against scary people in addition to the president. >> what he always does, look at the shiny object over there. mike was in-house counsel for donald trump. he didn't have other clients.
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that's not what this is about. i want to come back to the threats. because it is clear. the are always nuts out there. but where michael really turned is when he saw his wife hysterical crying saying now they're going to drag my faulgt father into it? and i think he had a real different way of looking at it and once again you've dragged your family through this. you know you go to bed with your wife crying and out of nowhere, the president u not >> let me ask you about this -- where is this going? i mean people say post pone, justice delays is justice denied. if he's not going to testify next week or week after, when is he going to testify? are they covering up a decision not to testify at all. >> i think house has a huge
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interest to have him come testify. i don't think they can agreed to have him not come indefinitely. >> have a ready issued a letter saying all the craziness they want to talk about. this could be a big hearing but i'd be shock fd it didn't happen at one point. >> you cover the politics of this. sometimes i think there's so much on the table, it's like in cards you already see four cards. you may not see the fifth but we've seen so much evidence of obstruction of justice and witness tampering and all of this. stuff that's been advertised in the news media now almost two years. is the congress going to move on impeachment even if mueller's report doesn't come through with the kind of athortd we might expect? >> it's a great question and
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it's one i've been asking democrats about for months now is whether or not they're going to wait and see what mueller's report actually produces before maki making independent judgment as to whether or not this president is fit for office. the answer i'm getting is they're going to pursue their own investigations separate and apart from the mueller probe. they're not going to step on mueller's toes. one that may not necessarily intersect with mueller's and they've been strong on this point that they're not just sitting on their hands to see what mueller produces. when evidence is released showing that the president maybe did acparticipate directly and that was an actual crime, then they are going to investigate that and they are going to judgmentess about whether or not -- and that is something
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they want to make clear. >> thank you so much. thank you, donnie. up next, all the ways in which the border wall is making america less secure. how is flat a challenge to the president. we're back after this. we're back after this. no more excuses with cologuard. we all make excuses for the things we don't want to do. but when it comes to colon cancer screening... i'm not doin' that. i eat plenty of kale. ahem, as i was saying... ...with cologuard, you don't need an excuse... all that prep? no thanks. that drink tastes horrible! but...there's no prep with cologuard... i can't take the time off work. who has two days? and i feel fine - no symptoms! everybody, listen! all you need is a trip to the bathroom. if you're 50 or older and at average risk, cologuard is the noninvasive option that finds 92% of colon cancers.
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." the government shutdown continue and continueses inflicting real financial pain on government employees and contractors. there's new reporting showing the economic ripple effect is putting national security, law enforcement at risk. the "new york times"s reports that according to the fbi agents association, they've been unable to issue grand jury subpoenas and indictments and can't pay informants and could lose them for good. this is how the fbi agents association put it yerds. >> the failure to fund the fbi is maybeing it more difficult for us to do our job, to protect people in our country from criminals and terrorists. lack of funding is showing up in all investigations. you need funds to run the fbi. period.
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>> and meanwhile the commandant of the coast guard delivered a message of solidarity to service members working without pay. >> for five plus weeks the anxiety and stress in the government lapse and nonpay. you should not be expected to shoulder this burden. ultimately i find it unceptable that coast guard men women have to rely on food pantries to get through day to day. >> hundreds ozes of irs employees are skipping work due to hardship of their own and that could hamper the ability to process refunds on time. so people short on cash aren't going to get their refunds. even the top economist says it could completely sthaul u.s. economy. >> could we get zero growth? wow. >> if it extended for the whole
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quarter and given the fact that the first quarter tends to be low because of residuals, then you could can end up with a number close to zero. >> i'm joined by the former mayor of new orleans. you had to run a city. a few stresses like katrina. and i saw you last year at the gridiron and you're the first guy i've seen face trump face to face and beat him. you beat him in the room and i think trump knew it and i think he said wow, this guy could be tough. >> i know. i had a good time that night. listen t was a really compelling night. a night where people came together and laughed and jobbed. it was respectful and forceful. >> you were showing the macho just like he does. it seems to me one of the hats the president wears is chief
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executive, not just commander in chief. he's supposed to run or she the united states government and make it work and we're looking at the cucalamity, from drug addiction on the coast, checks not coming to people who need them. >> one of the great generals who helped us rescue from katrina, he said let's not just get stuck on stupid and the president is way stuck on stupid right now. there is no mayor in america who would think of shutting down the government. it's not an option. if you were a mayor, they would put you in the ground figuratively within 24 hours. rights now the president has said the reason he is so insistent on the border wall is because he wants to secure the nation. and previously you just showed the fbi, the atf, coast guard, national finance center, air force, all these folks whose job
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it is to secure us are really now having a difficult time doing their job. the first order of business is to make the government work for the people. and if you can't even make the government work, then you're not doing your job. he is the chief executive officer. he is responsible for this and i think they should open in the government and we can have a discussion about whatever else ails the country at time which are many things. >> reporting quote a grim and growing consensus has begun to emerge on capitol hill that there may be no way out of this mess until something disastrous happens. we've had this shutdown over a month. when is it going to crack? something with air traffic control? somebody gets through with something on an airplane? >> let me speak to this issue.
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bad things always happen and something bad is going to happen. i lived through katrina, rita, the bp oil spill, the national recession. right now the nation is in a weaker spot to respond. we don't have to wait for that oker. the president should open up the government. every houses member and senate member ought to sit their buts in their seats and mitch mcconnell should have an open debate. they should then vote and sends whatever they do to the president. if he wishes to veto it, they should do it again. what they shouldn't do is shut down the government and stop talking. >> mitch is playing a little game tomorrow. he's playing a game. >> but what he's not doing and the american people don't understand this and you understand because you worked for tip o'neale is not having open floor debate on the senate,
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where our senators actually debate in full view so we can hold them all accountable for the words they say. when they do that, they'll build consensus, they'll pass something the house can consider. that's not what they're doing right now. my suggestion to mitch is let them vote. let's hear all of our senators debate and the house members do it. but there's nowhere else in the same universe where they would let people shut the government down and it's not right to ask people to work and not pay them, especially when we're asking them to give us our security. that's not the right thing to do. >> a man of the south of new orleans, a great family. thank you for coming on. i hope you make a big show running for president. up next, conservatives have latched on a new nemesis, a first-term democratic
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." what is it about alexandria ocosio cortez that makes conservatives lose their mind? she ran on a progressive platform that included medicare for all, climate change and a federal jobs guarantee. sheez quickly become the hard right's favorite target. take a listen. >> alexander ocasio-cortez and i'm absolutely fine with that. >> i'm going to call her ocauseio or oscary o.
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>> i like oscario. osocialist o. >> i wonder is she smarter than a fifth grader. i wish she would debate a fifth grader and let's see how far she is. >> and one guest on a fox took his criticism of her to a whole other level with an astounding historic comparison and that's coming up next and you won't believe it. 's coming up next and you won't believe it these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. energy lives here.
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we have a society in which there are an awful lot of people who have no idea that stalin, hit l mow say tongue came to power promising the same kind of things that ms. ocasio-cortez is promising and threat dictatorship and genocide. these promises are old promises and they invaryably lead to bad things. >> that was ben stein making a historic comparison to remember. but she's just one member of the chorus attackling ocorta. and james woods wrote the most dangerous person in america. i'm joined by barbara lee and jason johnson, politics editor
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for "the" you're right in the middle of this. what do you thing on the democratic caucus side when one member becomes the target for all this hate? >> first all of the hate is disgusting but that's who they are. the honorable aoc, she is really engaging with young people. she's bringing forth optimism and energy and creativity and she's connecting with people and that's what our democracy needs and. we're seeing more new voters beginning to understand what their government is about and that'ser for the people. >> we have people running, would kill for publicity like this and she's out there brilliantly, obviously, getting support in a progressive community and join fire. ben stein is a guy with brains. stalin? hitler? >> he should stick to old teen
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flicks. one you've got the angry trollish insult republicans who hate seeing a charming latina woman in power. and the other is jellish republicans. you hate her because she's not on your side. republicans wish they could find a young charismatic member of congress who could make policy instead of just trolling online. >> they didn't really treasure her enough. what do you thing of the positive influence? >> the positive influence primarily, take what she is able to do with young people and organize and really bring people in so they get to understand their government. how their government functions and that they are part of this democracy. so many people feel disconcan eced from washington and their government. also she has many ideas. and she's putting these ideas into practice, into policy that
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are going to change this country. she's dealing with systemic issues, institutional issues. you know, trump didn't start all the bad stuff hap indiana thpen count cannery. he's addressing some of the basic, basic reforms and changes that this country needs at its core. >> let's talk politics. nicknames, personal attacks. no more just an ideological battle which we would love to have. it's almost like she's getting the pocahontas treatment pretty early. >> she's a latina woman, puerto rican. and you have to remember the whipping boy of this administration has been latinos, even more so than black people and i can say that objecively. and how they're treating puerto rico with these white national policies.
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so ocasio-cortez is not only a member of congress but someone who can speak powerfully against these issues. and millennials are going to be the biggest voting population. >> my hunch is the democratic fight is going to be focussed on african-american women, young people, people on the left, progressives. it's going to be there. it's not going to be all white guys. >> those candidates who can bring the country together and certainly african-american women have been the backbone and the most consistent and smartest voters, quite frankly, of the democratic party. >> all the years of backing white males for public office. >> it's not so much pay day as women, women of color, we can lead, we can lead this country, we can lead the world. and our experience brings that table.
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>> how is the glass sealing rr going right now? >> we elected 113 women into congress we have more people of color ever. i see this as a positive and year moving forward. >> you're one of the leaders, one of the pioneers. you're not that old but you're a pioneer. barbara lee of oakland and all those great places. and jason johnson. when we return a look at the civil rights activist, jfk advisor. activist, jfk advisor. [ doorbell rings ] janice, mom told me you bought a house.
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♪ welcome back to "hardball." in october of 1960, civrights leader martin luther king was arrested at a sit-in. his wife reached out to 1/2ered. he was working on john f kennedy's campaign and knew the politics and how thard would be to get his candidate, kennedy too, risk interfering in the case but didn't want to risk doing nothing. he said why can't kennedy at least just call her and say we're working at it? you have my sympathy? when dr. king was release said thanks to the political conniving of jacky and bobby kennedy, he had a pamphlet known as the blue bomb and went to black churches before the election.
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it was seen the deciding event of the entire campaign. there are moments when the politically expedeiant can be wise, martin luther king said of the episode and its effects of deciding the election. wofford died this past monday on martin luther king day. tonight on "all in." >> he should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one people want to look at. >> obstruction in plain sight. the man who could tell all about this's alleged crimes says he won't testify in public because of presidential threats >> i would say he's been threatened by the truth. >> reaction from oversight democrats. >> i feel like i'm in the middle of a godfather movie. >> i guarantee you as


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